Abnormally Large Backup Files

Hi All,
We seem to have an issue with our backup routine for one of the databases.
On a daily basis, we have one of our databases back up to disk. However, I
noticed that our backup file is huge (39GB!). I checked the database, and
it says it is only using 586MB of space. I also checked the transaction
log, and it says it is using 100MB of space.
We have a weekly backup of the database, and it only takes up 921MB, so I
can't see why the daily backup takes up so much room. Does it append to the
existing backup? If so, how can I selectively remove old backups from it?
I looked at the backup routine, and here's the SQL that is run:
BACKUP DATABASE [NAPROD] TO DISK = N'D:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL
Server\MSSQL\BACKUP\NAPROD daily production backup.BAK' WITH NOINIT ,
NOUNLOAD , NAME = N'NAPROD daily production backup ', NOSKIP , STATS = 10, DESCRIPTION = N'Navision production database backup ', NOFORMAT
Looking at it, I can't see any problem. I'd really like to get this file
down to something more manageable, as it is killing our backup program.
Any ideas would be appreciated! :)
Thanks!
Brian.Change the NOINIT to INIT.
--
Andrew J. Kelly
SQL Server MVP
"Brian Piotrowski" <bpiotrowski@.simcoeparts.com> wrote in message
news:%23xbCmNvRDHA.1688@.TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Hi All,
> We seem to have an issue with our backup routine for one of the databases.
> On a daily basis, we have one of our databases back up to disk. However,
I
> noticed that our backup file is huge (39GB!). I checked the database, and
> it says it is only using 586MB of space. I also checked the transaction
> log, and it says it is using 100MB of space.
> We have a weekly backup of the database, and it only takes up 921MB, so I
> can't see why the daily backup takes up so much room. Does it append to
the
> existing backup? If so, how can I selectively remove old backups from it?
> I looked at the backup routine, and here's the SQL that is run:
> BACKUP DATABASE [NAPROD] TO DISK = N'D:\Program Files\Microsoft SQL
> Server\MSSQL\BACKUP\NAPROD daily production backup.BAK' WITH NOINIT ,
> NOUNLOAD , NAME = N'NAPROD daily production backup ', NOSKIP , STATS => 10, DESCRIPTION = N'Navision production database backup ', NOFORMAT
> Looking at it, I can't see any problem. I'd really like to get this file
> down to something more manageable, as it is killing our backup program.
> Any ideas would be appreciated! :)
> Thanks!
> Brian.
>

abnormal message when performing restore on 2005

Hi!
I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do not
want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
I then used this command
restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with replace
and it restored the information correctly...
But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
your thoughts?
/henrikThat is a new "error" message designed to keep you from erasing potentially
useful data. It applies when the following conditions are al true
You are restoring over an existing database
The database is in full recovery mode
There are active log segments (segments that have not been backed up).
The assumption is that the database contains useful transactions that must
be preserved.
--
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Henrik Nordgren" <HenrikNordgren@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:84A018FB-0A32-4991-BC94-BD875EAB553B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi!
> I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
> Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
> Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
> BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do
> not
> want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
> statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
> Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
>
> I then used this command
> restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with
> replace
> and it restored the information correctly...
> But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
> the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
> your thoughts?
> /henrik
>|||On Feb 14, 1:47 pm, Henrik Nordgren
<HenrikNordg...@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
> Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
> Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
> BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do not
> want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
> statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
> Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
> I then used this command
> restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with replace
> and it restored the information correctly...
> But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
> the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
> your thoughts?
> /henrik
This is telling you that something modified your database after your
last log backup was done. There are "new" transactions in the log
that you will lose if you proceed with the restore...

abnormal message when performing restore on 2005

Hi!
I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do not
want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
I then used this command
restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with replace
and it restored the information correctly...
But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
your thoughts?
/henrik
That is a new "error" message designed to keep you from erasing potentially
useful data. It applies when the following conditions are al true
You are restoring over an existing database
The database is in full recovery mode
There are active log segments (segments that have not been backed up).
The assumption is that the database contains useful transactions that must
be preserved.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Henrik Nordgren" <HenrikNordgren@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:84A018FB-0A32-4991-BC94-BD875EAB553B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi!
> I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
> Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
> Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
> BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do
> not
> want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
> statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
> Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
>
> I then used this command
> restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with
> replace
> and it restored the information correctly...
> But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
> the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
> your thoughts?
> /henrik
>
|||On Feb 14, 1:47 pm, Henrik Nordgren
<HenrikNordg...@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
> Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
> Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
> BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do not
> want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
> statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
> Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
> I then used this command
> restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with replace
> and it restored the information correctly...
> But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
> the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
> your thoughts?
> /henrik
This is telling you that something modified your database after your
last log backup was done. There are "new" transactions in the log
that you will lose if you proceed with the restore...
sql

abnormal message when performing restore on 2005

Hi!
I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do not
want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
I then used this command
restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with replace
and it restored the information correctly...
But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
your thoughts?
/henrikThat is a new "error" message designed to keep you from erasing potentially
useful data. It applies when the following conditions are al true
You are restoring over an existing database
The database is in full recovery mode
There are active log segments (segments that have not been backed up).
The assumption is that the database contains useful transactions that must
be preserved.
Geoff N. Hiten
Senior Database Administrator
Microsoft SQL Server MVP
"Henrik Nordgren" <HenrikNordgren@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
message news:84A018FB-0A32-4991-BC94-BD875EAB553B@.microsoft.com...
> Hi!
> I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
> Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
> Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
> BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do
> not
> want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
> statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
> Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
>
> I then used this command
> restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with
> replace
> and it restored the information correctly...
> But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
> the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
> your thoughts?
> /henrik
>|||On Feb 14, 1:47 pm, Henrik Nordgren
<HenrikNordg...@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> Hi!
> I have performed a full, differential and translog backup of my database.
> Now when I try to restore the full backup it I get this message
> Msg 3159, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> The tail of the log for the database "userdb" has not been backed up. Use
> BACKUP LOG WITH NORECOVERY to backup the log if it contains work you do no
t
> want to lose. Use the WITH REPLACE or WITH STOPAT clause of the RESTORE
> statement to just overwrite the contents of the log.
> Msg 3013, Level 16, State 1, Line 1
> RESTORE DATABASE is terminating abnormally.
> I then used this command
> restore database userdb from disk='X:\backups\userfulldev.bak' with replac
e
> and it restored the information correctly...
> But im a bit curious exactly what I did wrong. Usually I never have to use
> the "with replace" option when I restore my databases...
> your thoughts?
> /henrik
This is telling you that something modified your database after your
last log backup was done. There are "new" transactions in the log
that you will lose if you proceed with the restore...

aarich event error when backup is run on big DB

Hi all...
Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
info
OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
Mem: 1Gig
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
Event Error:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: aarich
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 18/05/2006
Time: 11:23:01
User: N/A
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
period.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......=C0
0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
companies accounts DB.
Any suggestions or advise or questions?Friendly wrote:
> Hi all...
> Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
> past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
> to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
> Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
> server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
> starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
> freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
> it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
> the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
> thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
> fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
> info
> OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
> CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
> Mem: 1Gig
> Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
> I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
> be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
> Event Error:
> Event Type: Error
> Event Source: aarich
> Event Category: None
> Event ID: 9
> Date: 18/05/2006
> Time: 11:23:01
> User: N/A
> Computer: ACCOUNTS
> Description:
> The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
> period.
> For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> Data:
> 0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
> 0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......À
> 0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
> 0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
> 0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
> 0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
> 0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
>
> I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
> my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
> companies accounts DB.
> Any suggestions or advise or questions?
>
Hi
A 5 Gb database isn't very big and shouldn't give you any problems with
regards to backing it up. From error message, it sounds to me like the
problem is with one of your harddrives. Have you tried to backup the
database to another location e.g. a network location? This would rule
out that the problem is related to the path where you put your backup.
--
Regards
Steen Schlüter Persson
DBA|||Thanks for the fast reply. I tried backing up to 2 mapped network
drives, but both give me the below error... once again Microsoft
doesn't know what this is :-( If this is something to do with
permissions, then I'm lost, cause both mapped drives on both pc's has
the shares and security set to 'everyone'.
I will get my external USB drive in on Monday, then I'll try it with
that HD and report back.
Here's the error I got when trying to back up to a mapped drive.
Event Type: Error
Event Source: MSSQLSERVER
Event Category: (2)
Event ID: 17055
Date: 09/06/2006
Time: 14:49:36
User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
18204 :
BackupDiskFile::CreateMedia: Backup device 'F:\Perry\aa1900.bak' failed
to create. Operating system error = 3(error not found).
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 1c 47 00 00 10 00 00 00 .G.....
0008: 09 00 00 00 41 00 43 00 ...A.C.
0010: 43 00 4f 00 55 00 4e 00 C.O.U.N.
0018: 54 00 53 00 00 00 00 00 T.S....
0020: 00 00 ..|||OS error 3 is "The system cannot find the path specified.". Is this a local disk? Is it a regular
disk?
--
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
"Friendly" <friendly_781114@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149861850.904118.98290@.i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the fast reply. I tried backing up to 2 mapped network
> drives, but both give me the below error... once again Microsoft
> doesn't know what this is :-( If this is something to do with
> permissions, then I'm lost, cause both mapped drives on both pc's has
> the shares and security set to 'everyone'.
> I will get my external USB drive in on Monday, then I'll try it with
> that HD and report back.
> Here's the error I got when trying to back up to a mapped drive.
> Event Type: Error
> Event Source: MSSQLSERVER
> Event Category: (2)
> Event ID: 17055
> Date: 09/06/2006
> Time: 14:49:36
> User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
> Computer: ACCOUNTS
> Description:
> 18204 :
> BackupDiskFile::CreateMedia: Backup device 'F:\Perry\aa1900.bak' failed
> to create. Operating system error = 3(error not found).
>
> For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> Data:
> 0000: 1c 47 00 00 10 00 00 00 .G.....
> 0008: 09 00 00 00 41 00 43 00 ...A.C.
> 0010: 43 00 4f 00 55 00 4e 00 C.O.U.N.
> 0018: 54 00 53 00 00 00 00 00 T.S....
> 0020: 00 00 ..
>|||Tibor Karaszi wrote:
> OS error 3 is "The system cannot find the path specified.". Is this a local disk? Is it a regular
> disk?
> --
> Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
> http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
> http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
>
This second error has nothing to do with the original issue. The second
error happened when I tried doing a backup to a mapped drive, which is
mapped to another server on the same network. I tried it with another
mapped drive to another server, and same error came up when running the
backup job. Now because this error probably hasn't anything to do with
the original error, I will be getting in my external USB HD on Monday,
and then try and back up to that drive and report what happens then.
I just want to repeat this, that the original error only happens 90% of
the time to one of the 6 DB's I got running on the pc. The only
noticable difference between the DB that gives the errors, and the rest
is the size.|||"Friendly" <friendly_781114@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149840272.386673.84020@.g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all...
Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
info
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Could be a couple of things.
Bad spot(s) on the disk where the controller keeps retrying until it times
out.
Could be an issue with the cache on the controller. Check to see if it's in
write-back or write-thru, change to write-thru.
Try putting a separate physical disk in the machine and backing up to that.
Also try stopping the database and do a manual xcopy to another location.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
Mem: 1Gig
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
Event Error:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: aarich
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 18/05/2006
Time: 11:23:01
User: N/A
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
period.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......À
0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
companies accounts DB.
Any suggestions or advise or questions?|||It appears like there is much I/O delay. Are you taking the backup to the
mirrored disk? Can you try the backup to non mirrored disk? Also check with
the hardware vendor..Try with a high speed disk
Jayesh
"Friendly" <friendly_781114@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149840272.386673.84020@.g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all...
Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
info
OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
Mem: 1Gig
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
Event Error:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: aarich
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 18/05/2006
Time: 11:23:01
User: N/A
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
period.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......À
0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
companies accounts DB.
Any suggestions or advise or questions?|||Hi all... Thanks for the replies so far. Sorry for not coming back
sooner, but been busy with some other stuff. I came in to work over the
weekend and successfully backed up the DB on a USB drive 3 times, 2
hours apart. And I didn't get any event errors. To answer the previous
person's question, I am backing up to a mirrorred drive yes. But it was
backing up to the same hardware configuration a few months ago, without
any event errors... which sort of makes me believe that this could be
one of the hard drives failing?
Any further advice or tests you want me to do?
Thanks

aarich event error when backup is run on big DB

Hi all...
Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
info
OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
Mem: 1Gig
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
Event Error:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: aarich
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 18/05/2006
Time: 11:23:01
User: N/A
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
period.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......=C0
0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
companies accounts DB.
Any suggestions or advise or questions?Friendly wrote:
> Hi all...
> Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
> past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
> to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
> Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
> server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
> starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
> freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
> it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
> the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
> thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
> fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
> info
> OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
> CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
> Mem: 1Gig
> Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
> I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
> be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
> Event Error:
> Event Type: Error
> Event Source: aarich
> Event Category: None
> Event ID: 9
> Date: 18/05/2006
> Time: 11:23:01
> User: N/A
> Computer: ACCOUNTS
> Description:
> The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
> period.
> For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> Data:
> 0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
> 0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......
> 0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
> 0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
> 0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
> 0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
> 0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
>
> I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
> my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
> companies accounts DB.
> Any suggestions or advise or questions?
>
Hi
A 5 Gb database isn't very big and shouldn't give you any problems with
regards to backing it up. From error message, it sounds to me like the
problem is with one of your harddrives. Have you tried to backup the
database to another location e.g. a network location? This would rule
out that the problem is related to the path where you put your backup.
Regards
Steen Schlter Persson
DBA|||Thanks for the fast reply. I tried backing up to 2 mapped network
drives, but both give me the below error... once again Microsoft
doesn't know what this is :-( If this is something to do with
permissions, then I'm lost, cause both mapped drives on both pc's has
the shares and security set to 'everyone'.
I will get my external USB drive in on Monday, then I'll try it with
that HD and report back.
Here's the error I got when trying to back up to a mapped drive.
Event Type: Error
Event Source: MSSQLSERVER
Event Category: (2)
Event ID: 17055
Date: 09/06/2006
Time: 14:49:36
User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
18204 :
BackupDiskFile::CreateMedia: Backup device 'F:\Perry\aa1900.bak' failed
to create. Operating system error = 3(error not found).
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 1c 47 00 00 10 00 00 00 .G.....
0008: 09 00 00 00 41 00 43 00 ...A.C.
0010: 43 00 4f 00 55 00 4e 00 C.O.U.N.
0018: 54 00 53 00 00 00 00 00 T.S....
0020: 00 00 ..|||OS error 3 is "The system cannot find the path specified.". Is this a local
disk? Is it a regular
disk?
Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
"Friendly" <friendly_781114@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149861850.904118.98290@.i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Thanks for the fast reply. I tried backing up to 2 mapped network
> drives, but both give me the below error... once again Microsoft
> doesn't know what this is :-( If this is something to do with
> permissions, then I'm lost, cause both mapped drives on both pc's has
> the shares and security set to 'everyone'.
> I will get my external USB drive in on Monday, then I'll try it with
> that HD and report back.
> Here's the error I got when trying to back up to a mapped drive.
> Event Type: Error
> Event Source: MSSQLSERVER
> Event Category: (2)
> Event ID: 17055
> Date: 09/06/2006
> Time: 14:49:36
> User: NT AUTHORITY\SYSTEM
> Computer: ACCOUNTS
> Description:
> 18204 :
> BackupDiskFile::CreateMedia: Backup device 'F:\Perry\aa1900.bak' failed
> to create. Operating system error = 3(error not found).
>
> For more information, see Help and Support Center at
> http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
> Data:
> 0000: 1c 47 00 00 10 00 00 00 .G.....
> 0008: 09 00 00 00 41 00 43 00 ...A.C.
> 0010: 43 00 4f 00 55 00 4e 00 C.O.U.N.
> 0018: 54 00 53 00 00 00 00 00 T.S....
> 0020: 00 00 ..
>|||Tibor Karaszi wrote:
> OS error 3 is "The system cannot find the path specified.". Is this a loca
l disk? Is it a regular
> disk?
> --
> Tibor Karaszi, SQL Server MVP
> http://www.karaszi.com/sqlserver/default.asp
> http://www.solidqualitylearning.com/
>
This second error has nothing to do with the original issue. The second
error happened when I tried doing a backup to a mapped drive, which is
mapped to another server on the same network. I tried it with another
mapped drive to another server, and same error came up when running the
backup job. Now because this error probably hasn't anything to do with
the original error, I will be getting in my external USB HD on Monday,
and then try and back up to that drive and report what happens then.
I just want to repeat this, that the original error only happens 90% of
the time to one of the 6 DB's I got running on the pc. The only
noticable difference between the DB that gives the errors, and the rest
is the size.|||"Friendly" <friendly_781114@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149840272.386673.84020@.g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all...
Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
info
[vbcol=seagreen]
Could be a couple of things.
Bad spot(s) on the disk where the controller keeps retrying until it times
out.
Could be an issue with the cache on the controller. Check to see if it's in
write-back or write-thru, change to write-thru.
Try putting a separate physical disk in the machine and backing up to that.
Also try stopping the database and do a manual xcopy to another location.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
Mem: 1Gig
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
Event Error:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: aarich
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 18/05/2006
Time: 11:23:01
User: N/A
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
period.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......
0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
companies accounts DB.
Any suggestions or advise or questions?|||It appears like there is much I/O delay. Are you taking the backup to the
mirrored disk? Can you try the backup to non mirrored disk? Also check with
the hardware vendor..Try with a high speed disk
Jayesh
"Friendly" <friendly_781114@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1149840272.386673.84020@.g10g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Hi all...
Let me first explain why I posted this here... I have run this error
past Microsoft and Gigabyte, and both cant help me, so now I'm turning
to you guys :-) What happens is that I got a job set up on SQL
Enterprise 2000 that runs a backup of one of the several DB's on the
server. But in 90% of the times that the backup run, this event log
starts appearing, and consistently repeats, until the pc eventually
freezes up and I have to do a hard restart. I'm starting to think that
it has something to do with the DB size... its about 5+ gig and also
the backup. This has only recently started to happen, and I'm also
thinking it because the DB increased in size. The other DB's backs up
fine, but none of them is bigger than 500Meg. Here's some additional
info
OS: Windows Server 2003 SE SP1
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 3GHz
Mem: 1Gig
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-8IKHXT(1.0)
I got 2 HD's running Raid 1 (mirroring), thus I first thought it might
be that, cause the file below is the drivers for it.
Event Error:
Event Type: Error
Event Source: aarich
Event Category: None
Event ID: 9
Date: 18/05/2006
Time: 11:23:01
User: N/A
Computer: ACCOUNTS
Description:
The device, \Device\Scsi\aarich1, did not respond within the timeout
period.
For more information, see Help and Support Center at
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 00 00 10 00 01 00 66 00 .....f.
0008: 00 00 00 00 09 00 04 c0 ......
0010: 01 01 00 50 00 00 00 00 ...P...
0018: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0028: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ......
0030: 00 00 00 00 07 00 00 00 ......
I was thinking of maybe running something that could reduce the size of
my DB, but I'm a bit hesitant on fiddling with this DB, as it is my
companies accounts DB.
Any suggestions or advise or questions?|||Hi all... Thanks for the replies so far. Sorry for not coming back
sooner, but been busy with some other stuff. I came in to work over the
weekend and successfully backed up the DB on a USB drive 3 times, 2
hours apart. And I didn't get any event errors. To answer the previous
person's question, I am backing up to a mirrorred drive yes. But it was
backing up to the same hardware configuration a few months ago, without
any event errors... which sort of makes me believe that this could be
one of the hard drives failing?
Any further advice or tests you want me to do?
Thanks|||Hi all... Thanks for the replies so far. Sorry for not coming back
sooner, but been busy with some other stuff. I came in to work over the
weekend and successfully backed up the DB on a USB drive 3 times, 2
hours apart. And I didn't get any event errors. To answer the previous
person's question, I am backing up to a mirrorred drive yes. But it was
backing up to the same hardware configuration a few months ago, without
any event errors... which sort of makes me believe that this could be
one of the hard drives failing?
Any further advice or tests you want me to do?
Thanks

A trigger that backups data from several tables...?

Hi,
I have a problem... I want to backup data to a backuptable from a table
that has a relation to an another table. And the backup should be done
with a trigger when an update or delete occurs... What I mean is that
if I have a table A with columns of NameID, Name and LinkID... then the
LinkID column has a reference to another table B, which has columns of
LinkID, LinkName. I know how to get a backup from table A or Table B...
but I don't know how to get a backup from both of the tables at the
same time to a single table that would consist of the following
information: NameID, Name, LinkID and LinkName. (Should there be a use
of joins in the trigger or how do I get all the required info?)
Table A
======
_____________________
| NameID | Name | LinkID |
---
| 1 | Billy | 1 |
Table B
======
_________________
| LinkID | LinkName |
--
| 1 | blaa blaa |
.... and what I want in the backuptable:
_______________________________
| NameID | Name | LinkID | LinkName |
----
| 1 | Billy | 1 | blaa blaa |
Thanx in advance!Here is an example of an audit trigger I use:
CREATE trigger EmployeeAudit on Employee
AFTER INSERT, UPDATE, DELETE
AS
insert into EmployeeAudit select getdate(), 'D', * from deleted
insert into EmployeeAudit select getdate(), 'I', * from inserted
GO
You can also join the [deleted] or [inserted] tables with other tables like
so:
insert into EmployeeAudit
select
deleted.a,
deleted.b,
TableB.c,
TableB.d
from deleted
join TableB
on TableB.EmployeeID = deleted.EmployeeID
However, if TableB is a code table and you just want to include descriptions
in the audit, then perhaps you could implement the audit table with the same
structure as the updated table, and then implement a view that joins the
audit table with the related table.
"patte" <fipatte@.luukku.com> wrote in message
news:1138044677.419112.215820@.g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi,
> I have a problem... I want to backup data to a backuptable from a table
> that has a relation to an another table. And the backup should be done
> with a trigger when an update or delete occurs... What I mean is that
> if I have a table A with columns of NameID, Name and LinkID... then the
> LinkID column has a reference to another table B, which has columns of
> LinkID, LinkName. I know how to get a backup from table A or Table B...
> but I don't know how to get a backup from both of the tables at the
> same time to a single table that would consist of the following
> information: NameID, Name, LinkID and LinkName. (Should there be a use
> of joins in the trigger or how do I get all the required info?)
> Table A
> ======
> _____________________
> | NameID | Name | LinkID |
> ---
> | 1 | Billy | 1 |
> Table B
> ======
> _________________
> | LinkID | LinkName |
> --
> | 1 | blaa blaa |
>
> .... and what I want in the backuptable:
> _______________________________
> | NameID | Name | LinkID | LinkName |
> ----
> | 1 | Billy | 1 | blaa blaa |
>
> Thanx in advance!
>|||thanks!!! :)
...I got it to work just as I wanted to.|||Keep in mind NOT to use the asteriks if you are goind in productional
code. Especially in triggers that can cause a tremendous trouble. If
the schema is modified in some way (lets say at the source table of the
trigger and you didn=B4t extend the schema at the backup table, every
transaction made on the source table will fail. better use named
columns in here.
HTH, Jens Suessmeyer.

A point in time backup with SQL Server 2000 Enterprise Manager

I'm having a problem testing a point in time backup. Here
is what I was trying:
1) I created a complete database backup to a file
D:\TEMP.DAT (of a database named
PHCS) (Time - 10:45)
2) I went and made some changes to the PHCS database at
10:49:10
3) I went and made some more changes to the PHCS database
at 10:50:50
4) I backed up the transaction log database (also into
D:\TEMP.DAT, appending).
(Time - 10:52)
5) I went to restore the database backed up at 10:45 and
left it unoperational
6) I went to restore the transaction log created at 10:52
and tried to specify a time
of 10:50:00. I wanted to restore the changes made in step
2, but not step 3.
He restore me the hole last transaction log i selected
an don't stop between step 2 and 3 !!
Many thanks for your help
DanielDid you use STOPAT..?
Here's the example from SQL BOL
-- Restore the database backup.
RESTORE DATABASE MyNwind
FROM MyNwind_1, MyNwind_2
WITH NORECOVERY
GO
RESTORE LOG MyNwind
FROM MyNwind_log1
WITH RECOVERY, STOPAT = 'Jul 1, 1998 10:00 AM'
GO
HTH
Ryan Waight, MCDBA, MCSE
"Ischi" <daniel_ischi@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0def01c38d87$06a78890$a101280a@.phx.gbl...
> I'm having a problem testing a point in time backup. Here
> is what I was trying:
> 1) I created a complete database backup to a file
> D:\TEMP.DAT (of a database named
> PHCS) (Time - 10:45)
> 2) I went and made some changes to the PHCS database at
> 10:49:10
> 3) I went and made some more changes to the PHCS database
> at 10:50:50
> 4) I backed up the transaction log database (also into
> D:\TEMP.DAT, appending).
> (Time - 10:52)
> 5) I went to restore the database backed up at 10:45 and
> left it unoperational
> 6) I went to restore the transaction log created at 10:52
> and tried to specify a time
> of 10:50:00. I wanted to restore the changes made in step
> 2, but not step 3.
> He restore me the hole last transaction log i selected
> an don't stop between step 2 and 3 !!
> Many thanks for your help
> Daniel
>|||Hello
No i use the SQL Enterprise Manager not the Query
Analycer. I know the statement in Qury Analycer.
Thaks and best regards.
Daniel
>--Original Message--
>Did you use STOPAT..?
>Here's the example from SQL BOL
>-- Restore the database backup.
>RESTORE DATABASE MyNwind
> FROM MyNwind_1, MyNwind_2
> WITH NORECOVERY
>GO
>RESTORE LOG MyNwind
> FROM MyNwind_log1
> WITH RECOVERY, STOPAT = 'Jul 1, 1998 10:00 AM'
>GO
>
>--
>HTH
>Ryan Waight, MCDBA, MCSE
>"Ischi" <daniel_ischi@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:0def01c38d87$06a78890$a101280a@.phx.gbl...
>> I'm having a problem testing a point in time backup.
Here
>> is what I was trying:
>> 1) I created a complete database backup to a file
>> D:\TEMP.DAT (of a database named
>> PHCS) (Time - 10:45)
>> 2) I went and made some changes to the PHCS database at
>> 10:49:10
>> 3) I went and made some more changes to the PHCS
database
>> at 10:50:50
>> 4) I backed up the transaction log database (also into
>> D:\TEMP.DAT, appending).
>> (Time - 10:52)
>> 5) I went to restore the database backed up at 10:45
and
>> left it unoperational
>> 6) I went to restore the transaction log created at
10:52
>> and tried to specify a time
>> of 10:50:00. I wanted to restore the changes made in
step
>> 2, but not step 3.
>> He restore me the hole last transaction log i selected
>> an don't stop between step 2 and 3 !!
>> Many thanks for your help
>> Daniel
>
>.
>|||To do it within Enterprise Manager :-
Right Click DB
All Tasks
Restore DataBase
Tick the Box "Point in Time Restore"
Specify the time you wish to stop at.
--
HTH
Ryan Waight, MCDBA, MCSE
"Ischi" <daniel_ischi@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:0cde01c38d90$dcd9bc90$a301280a@.phx.gbl...
> Hello
> No i use the SQL Enterprise Manager not the Query
> Analycer. I know the statement in Qury Analycer.
> Thaks and best regards.
> Daniel
> >--Original Message--
> >Did you use STOPAT..?
> >
> >Here's the example from SQL BOL
> >
> >-- Restore the database backup.
> >RESTORE DATABASE MyNwind
> > FROM MyNwind_1, MyNwind_2
> > WITH NORECOVERY
> >GO
> >RESTORE LOG MyNwind
> > FROM MyNwind_log1
> > WITH RECOVERY, STOPAT = 'Jul 1, 1998 10:00 AM'
> >GO
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >HTH
> >Ryan Waight, MCDBA, MCSE
> >
> >"Ischi" <daniel_ischi@.hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:0def01c38d87$06a78890$a101280a@.phx.gbl...
> >> I'm having a problem testing a point in time backup.
> Here
> >> is what I was trying:
> >>
> >> 1) I created a complete database backup to a file
> >> D:\TEMP.DAT (of a database named
> >> PHCS) (Time - 10:45)
> >> 2) I went and made some changes to the PHCS database at
> >> 10:49:10
> >> 3) I went and made some more changes to the PHCS
> database
> >> at 10:50:50
> >> 4) I backed up the transaction log database (also into
> >> D:\TEMP.DAT, appending).
> >> (Time - 10:52)
> >> 5) I went to restore the database backed up at 10:45
> and
> >> left it unoperational
> >> 6) I went to restore the transaction log created at
> 10:52
> >> and tried to specify a time
> >> of 10:50:00. I wanted to restore the changes made in
> step
> >> 2, but not step 3.
> >>
> >> He restore me the hole last transaction log i selected
> >> an don't stop between step 2 and 3 !!
> >>
> >> Many thanks for your help
> >>
> >> Daniel
> >>
> >
> >
> >.
> >

a msde question (maintenance plan)...

can one use the maintenance plan to do a scheduled backup job for a
msde (sql2k) database? i tried to do it, but there is no schedule
availalbe under the complete backup tab. thank youWhat OS are you running on?
Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP
"=== Steve L ===" <steve.lin@.powells.com> wrote in message
news:1112997703.048071.30180@.g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> can one use the maintenance plan to do a scheduled backup job for a
> msde (sql2k) database? i tried to do it, but there is no schedule
> availalbe under the complete backup tab. thank you
>|||OS is win2k, just like other servers, except on this box, only msde for
sql was installed.|||I assume you are using enterprise manager. Are you sure you have the msde
instance registered under an account with sa privileges? Is SQL Agent
running? Other than that I don't know why it wouldn't show up.
Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP
"=== Steve L ===" <steve.lin@.powells.com> wrote in message
news:1113232709.552087.257980@.z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> OS is win2k, just like other servers, except on this box, only msde for
> sql was installed.
>|||yes, i was running EM from the other server which has a full install of
sql2k.
the msde (and its sql agent) is running under a domain acct with sa
privileges.
i can create a scheduled backup job thru backup wizard, but am
wondering if anyone can do that thru creating a maintenance plan,
because the calendar function under the maintenance is not working, i
don't know if that's the limitation of msde since i have never dealt
with it before (i have always used the full version of sql in the
past).
thank you|||Got me too. I rarely deal with MSDE but I thought you could create a MP
with no problems.
Andrew J. Kelly SQL MVP
"=== Steve L ===" <steve.lin@.powells.com> wrote in message
news:1113255355.743242.110980@.o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> yes, i was running EM from the other server which has a full install of
> sql2k.
> the msde (and its sql agent) is running under a domain acct with sa
> privileges.
> i can create a scheduled backup job thru backup wizard, but am
> wondering if anyone can do that thru creating a maintenance plan,
> because the calendar function under the maintenance is not working, i
> don't know if that's the limitation of msde since i have never dealt
> with it before (i have always used the full version of sql in the
> past).
> thank you
>